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Corona Virus Blog, April 10, 2020

The good news today is that Boris Johnson appears to be on the mend, and has been moved out of the ICU, although he remains in hospital.

Unfortunately, the death toll from the coronavirus continues to grow.

Let's continue the conversation.

Comments

Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
MiamiVice said…
Unknown accused me of pushing ignorant and dangerous theories.

I get that I may not agree with what YOU think, but I do have reasons to back up why I think what I think. Also, if there weren’t trolls all over the internet I would gladly give you my name so you could look me up on the Florida BON (board of nursing’s) website where you could verify my advanced nursing education.

Unknown, for all your ‘superior’ knowledge, what is your education pedigree?
MiamiVice said…
There are other ways to go about practicing safe social distancing, hand washing, and isolating at risk people without holding everyone back.

I find it interesting that you tell me ‘not to bother responding,’ apparently you’re a narcissist where only your opinion bears hearing.
Portcitygirl said…
Miami Vice


Idk what the blogger said, but I agree with what you said👆

We can't stay on lockdown forever. The older people and immune compromised should continue on I think until we have a vaccine, but the rest of us need to work and take our chances. People will continue to social distance as much as possible until a vaccine is ready.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

I expect you know this site from John Hopkins Univ. but I'm posting it on the off chance it'll be useful. There's a great deal of data and rational thinking here. I was going to say common sense but `common' is the last thing that is -too many people on this side of the Atlantic have no idea about chain reactions/exponential growth.

What I found particularly interesting are the dates when the first cases were reported, many countries had cases long before they mentioned it to the world.
Portcitygirl said…
I think I had it. Lost all sense of smell and taste. I remember telling SO I didn't think I'd ever regain those senses again.
Scandi Sanskrit said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
abbyh said…

Good morning one and all.

Oh Portcitygirl, I "guess" congratulations or something to have come out the other side.

A part of me just wishes I could get it and be over with it. The other part thinks: the longer I wait before I get it, the more they will know what to do and what not to do for treatment.

Scandi Sanskrit said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Portcitygirl said…
Thanks abbyh!

I guess I'll never know, but I surely was symptomatic. I still have a lingering cough, too.
MiamiVice said…
AbbyH,

I found myself torn about that early on as well. The reason I took all the precautions I did was because I have parents that I would never want to place in danger. But I wondered if it would have been better to get it early on while there were still supplies, etc.

Have any of you read the articles on how they’re now comparing it with altitude sickness (the hemoglobin has a hard time binding with the oxygen) and they’re saying it’s less like pneumonia; hence why putting people on ventilators only lead to about 20% of them ever surviving to be weaned off. The bright side of that is that high doses of Vitamin C can help, which is something we all probably have at home.

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=230110#

This article mentions high altitude sickness but not the vitamin C.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/03/24/new-york-hospitals-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/amp/

This article mentions the Vitamin C.

Vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin, so if you have normal functioning kidneys you will just urinate any excess out.
MiamiVice said…
Also, it’s fine if people do not agree with me, everyone has their own views and their own reasons for having them. Keep in mind; however, that the economy is not just money. Also, I am providing articles to back up my views, I am not the only person who thinks the solution we are using could be worse than the disease.

Bill Gates is even stating that he thinks schools will open again, but that attendance will be incredibly low. This will effect school children for years to come if they miss key aspects of proper education.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/media/bill-gates-schools-may-reopen-in-fall-but-no-one-can-wave-a-wand-to-fix-us-economy.amp

There typically are more solutions to a problem than there were in Math class.
We are a creative people, we can come up with solutions that can keep things going but under a newer and safer ‘normal.’
MiamiVice said…
Port City Girl,

This article goes along with what you said about getting this virus early.

https://www.ksbw.com/article/new-study-investigates-californias-possible-herd-immunity-to-covid-19/32073873

They think that many Californians may have gotten COVID-19 during the fall of 2019 as CA is a hotspot for Chinese tourists and we now doubt many things about the information given to us by China, including when the outbreak actually started.
MiamiVice said…
Also since I’m on a roll here with comments, sorry all, we went grocery shopping on Wednesday.

Things I noticed: Aldi had a person outside with Lysol spray and paper towels to allow each person to wipe off their carts. I thought that was cool to give someone a job during this crisis as well as to sanitize cart handles. Maybe they should keep that up even after this is all over?

90% of people were wearing masks (not Mr Vice, though, what can I say?). People did a great job of social distancing and if your city is anything like Miami, you know that doesn’t normally happen. Typically you could be standing at the produce, making a selection, and someone would crowd in and grab something right in front of you. As I’ve mentioned before, I originated in the Midwest and so this crowding and pushing in front of others came as quite a shock to me, but it is how people are down here.

What about your city? Have you noticed any recent changes?

They haven’t threatened to stop us to determine if we are on a critical errand if they see us out yet, and I hope they don’t.
Some of these freedoms will be hard to get back if the government starts taking them away. We are obeying the rules, but it still concerns me if we develop a Gestapo due to this virus.
SwampWoman said…
MiamiVice, that was our experience as well at Aldi's.

That pushing and shoving is NOT done here because we're in a southern area. (North Florida is the old south, south Florida is Latin America mixed with New York.) Here, people will stand in front of the door forever holding it for other people. When people come in from other areas, they bring their behavior with them.
Something else to worry about now:

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/african-swine-fever-outbreak-reported-154252622.html

Despite what is said in the report, it's nothing to do with me!
SwampWoman said…
WildBoarBattle-maid, OMG, that is so contagious!

Definitely drawbacks to this globalist world thing.
Meowwww said…
Here in small town Wisconsin, Walmart is only letting people in as others leave as they have capacity restrictions. Our ALDI is business as usual, no wipes, whole families in shopping. I’ve been in ALDI twice recently, and the sheer number of young kids running around, touching everything, especially the produce, is astounding.
I am happy to report that the small family owned pet food store where I work has instituted some limits: max 2 people per group and max 15 minutes in the store. I’ve had to enforce this several times already,
Our governor has closed many state parks due to the litter and overcrowding, but the 2 near me are still open.
People are out and about in masks maybe 50% of the time, so that’s an improvement. Lots of people wearing gloves too, but in my opinion dirty gloves are no better than dirty hands.
We live on the border of Wisconsin and Minnesota and I work in Minnesota. Minnesota’s governor has done an amazing job of keeping it real in all of his announcements and speeches.
Hope you all are well, or get better soon if you are sick.
Ian's Girl said…
At the end of the day, this is just another case of Mother Nature thinning out the herd. Most people who die of it are old and or weak in some way. I'd be willing to bet a lot of the people who seemingly didn't have any co-morbidities probably had some they were unaware of. The vast majority of people recuperate, and many don't even have any symptoms.

I am extremely leery of the government exercising these drastic measures for too long. I just don't trust them. And the modelling everyone keeps using is BS; it appears to be strictly exponential, and I think they're using it to freak people out. Some basic graph theory, or power law, etc also needs to be applied/used/modelled/considered.


SwampWoman said…
MiamiVice, I have certainly read about the altitude sickness theory. There is a lot that isn't known about this virus.

I have read a lot of the mathematical modeling. I have also read that the true contagiousness is higher than what has been said publicly; however, it is out there in publications. Which version is true? Is there even a true version? I don't know. I don't know that anybody knows. I don't think that the world would have been effectively shut down if government officials were worried about just 100,000 excess deaths, not even 200k excess deaths. Why do I think that? Because the economic damage would be greater than those 100 or 200K deaths.

Since I was out and about in all my PPE gear yesterday, I asked SwampMan to stop by Tractor Supply since I was planning to lock up the livestock and deworm them. The dogs were nearly out of heartworm medicine and we're entering prime mosquito season as well. I was planning to pick up some Ivermectin both liquid and paste. There wasn't any. I'd never seen that before. People other than ourselves pay attention to medical journal reports, I see! I would caution against taking the paste wormer, though. Ewwww. A few milliliters of the injectable taken orally would be much easier and far more accurate of a dose.

No worries. I just ordered it through the usual channels but I'll have to wait a couple weeks for delivery (again, it usually arrives within 5 days).



MiamiVice said…
Minnesota Physician Blasts the CDC for having doctors inflate the amount of deaths from Coronavirus


https://www.foxnews.com/media/physician-blasts-cdc-coronavirus-death-count-guidelines

Excerpt from the article: (Jenson is the Minnesota Physician)

Jensen then told Ingraham that under the CDC guidelines, a patient who died after being hit by a bus and tested positive for coronavirus would be listed as having presumed to have died from the virus regardless of whatever damage was caused by the bus.

"That doesn't make any sense," he said.

Jensen also reacted to Dr. Anthony Fauci's response to a question about the potential for the number of coronavirus deaths being "padded," in which the NIAID director described the prevalance of "conspiracy theories" during "challenging" times in public health.

"I would remind him that anytime health care intersects with dollars it gets awkward," Jensen said.
Unknown said…
@SwampWoman They avoid adding an extra zero. I think officials were afraid of 1,000,000 - 3,000,000 deaths based on the earliest reports.
SwampWoman said…
Our (Florida) governor asked the CDC and FEMA to get busy on the guidance for hurricane evacuations with COVID-19. We should actually have it now because we're going to be setting up shelters soon. THAT's going to ruffle some tail feathers.

Son in law is still working intercepting traffic at the state line for temperature checks and to tell people that aren't from around here they have to self-quarantine for 14 days and that there are no rentals available for them. (Georgia people are free to come and go since south Georgia and north Florida have property and family in both states.)
MiamiVice said…
Swampwoman,

I have heard regarding Florida ‘the further North you go, the more South you get.’ I do like the Latin influence here, the food, language, the family-oriented and affectionate aspects. There have been some aspects, however, that have taken a lot of getting used to such as people shoving their way forward from the back of an airplane when it lands or pushing in front of you at a grocery store. I’ve stated this before, but I think this outbreak has made people kinder, at least in our area.

My husband says if we were to stay in Florida, he would like it more up further north where you can actually get out of the city and have some land. As it is, we plan to move to where he grew up in the PNW. As a Midwesterner who does not miss winter, I’m not thrilled.
MiamiVice said…
Does anyone have any theories as to why our government would want to inflate COVID death numbers?

Maybe to keep people obeying the encouraged regulations?

Maybe to justify future harsh sanctions against China?

I think the truth is important, but saying that someone hit by a bus died from the virus seems to be stretching things in an unhealthy way.
SwampWoman said…
@MiamiVice, Does anyone have any theories as to why our government would want to inflate COVID death numbers?

Maybe to keep people obeying the encouraged regulations?

Maybe to justify future harsh sanctions against China?

I think the truth is important, but saying that someone hit by a bus died from the virus seems to be stretching things in an unhealthy way.


Perhaps it is to maximize monies that can be given to the hospital because otherwise many are going to have to shut their doors due to financial issues? Medicaid/Medicare isn't known as being generous with their reimbursements and most of the people in the hospitals are on one or the other of those.
SwampWoman said…
Oh, my theory as to why is just that...a theory. I have no actual idea.
SwampWoman said…

MiamiVice said: I have heard regarding Florida ‘the further North you go, the more South you get.’ I do like the Latin influence here, the food, language, the family-oriented and affectionate aspects. There have been some aspects, however, that have taken a lot of getting used to such as people shoving their way forward from the back of an airplane when it lands or pushing in front of you at a grocery store. I’ve stated this before, but I think this outbreak has made people kinder, at least in our area.


It is quite true. We don't regard south Florida as part of the USA. It is various Latin American countries, Haiti, and New York and New Jersey rolled up into a rather dysfunctional conglomeration. The only thing they have in common is governmental corruption.
SwampWoman said…
Back to the hospital issue, the hospital profit centers are elective surgeries such as knee replacement surgeries, etc. Those are shut down for the foreseeable future.
SwampWoman said…
Even here in north Florida with relatively few positive cases and no deaths (knock on wood), SwampMan is unable to get a minor surgery because ALL elective surgeries have been cancelled.
Before any reader gets their panties in wad, this is my opinion.
Overestimating Covid deaths plays into certain factions of government. Those who wish for government to expand and take our God given and constitutional rights.
I blame Bill Gates,the WHO, the CDC and all who pushing mandatory vaccines. Do your research on Gates plan to limit population, what has happened in Africa and India with his vaccines!

As God is my witness, I’ll never take another vaccine!
SwampWoman said…
We have, as of 11 a.m.-ish, 17,531 cases including 513 non-Florida residents. We have had 390 deaths. Out of those, we've had 2,360 hospitalizations. This means that most hospitals in Florida are running on empty bank accounts and laying off employees.

Again, Georgia has @ 7,000 fewer positive cases and more deaths. Either this means that Georgia has a lot more untested China Plague positives out there than we do (which is certainly possible), or it could also mean that proximity to the beach/sunshine is important (Georgia has been very cloudy/rainy throughout the winter months and the huge clusters of death are inland and dark complected).
MiamiVice said…
Miss Scarlett,

You could be right. One thing I found interesting was that The Gates Foundation gives big money to places like Planned Parenthood and which population types are most decreased by PP? That’s right, Minority birth rates are most effected. Sad when you think you have the right to make decisions for large segments of the population simply because you’ve done well for yourself.

Although I work in healthcare and a vaccine will be mandatory for me to continue working, I do not think that it should be mandatory for everyone. We, who live in the US, still have rights to make decisions about our own health and livelihood.

Guillain-Barré syndrome is no joke and it is a risk with vaccines, this is just one reason people should be allowed to weigh the risks and benefits for themselves.
MiamiVice said…
Swampwoman,

I have heard people joke that the capital of South America is....Miami.

It is like living in another country down here at times.
MiamiVice said…
Swampwoman,

Did you hear what happened with the recent cruise passengers? The Holland America (Carnival owns HA) I believe the Rotterdam and Zaandam. They bussed the people off the cruise ships, through the FL airport and then released them in the Atlanta airports to catch their connecting flights. Yikes! I do not know if that’s because Atlanta did not put a plan in place for these passengers, or if they were not made aware as to how this was going to go down once the cruise passengers got off the ship. In Florida it was very coordinated, they kept passengers even away from the general population in the airport, but once in Atlanta....

That has been recent, but I do think there may be a spike somehow related to these cruise passengers as I don’t think they had even cloth masks to shelter the public from contagions.
SwampWoman said…
Miss Scarlett, I'd never get my panties in a wad from someone with that user name.

Some of the counties in Florida that have very few cases to no cases want to reopen the schools and "nonessential" business. The government in cities and counties adjacent to the ocean are getting a lot of crap from the residents who say "This is stupid that we can't even go out and walk along the beach and you have shut down everything else so what are we going to do with our kids? We can't keep them inside an apartment forever!" (Which is true.) The county and city governments are saying "We'd love to open the beaches but the instant we do, we're going to be inundated by the dumbasses that aren't from around here and put all of our families and friends here in danger!" (Also true.)

Before I castigate all governmental entities as power-hungry deep staters, I have to take into account what they know and what I don't. For example, the PPE and medications and components to almost everything comes from China. The economy was going to be royally screwed just from that aspect even if there were no positive cases here. There are no other avenues available to get the massive amounts of medication and supplies that we need until China is back to normal, and then the issue of whether we should trust anything coming out of China rears its ugly head. Personally, I would not.

The *only* thing the government had in its bag of tricks to keep as many of our people alive as possible in the sudden surprise pandemic (and that includes medical people without enough protection) was to shut down as much as possible until alternate medication suppliers and PPE have been established. We're not there yet. We won't be there for a long time, I fear, months, not weeks. And I may be being optimistic.

When there are adequate supplies of masks, medications, etc., then I expect everything will open up again.

Even if a state has this viral outbreak completely under control, will they continue to be under control if possibly infected people from other states come in? I believe New Zealand has theirs under control but probably *only* as long as they keep others out.
SwampWoman said…
I don't know if all y'all have read this: https://www.cummins.com/news/2020/04/06/working-together-cummins-and-dupont-help-address-critical-shortage-n95-masks

...Cummins’ NanoNet® and NanoForce® Media technology, which uses DuPont’s Hybrid Membrane Technology (HMT), can typically be found in air, fuel and lube filtration products used in heavy-duty diesel engines to prevent long-term engine wear, but also can be used in the N95 respirator masks worn by healthcare professionals to filter harmful airborne particles that can spread COVID-19.

The N95 designation means the respirator can block at least 95 percent of particles from entering the wearer’s nose and mouth. When Cummins’ NanoNet® Media was tested using an industry standard testing method, it exceeded the performance requirements for N95 designation. Cummins’ manufacturing facilities have since provided media samples to mask manufacturers across the globe to test its effectiveness.

...Cummins’ NanoNet® and NanoForce® Media technology, which uses DuPont’s Hybrid Membrane Technology (HMT), can typically be found in air, fuel and lube filtration products used in heavy-duty diesel engines to prevent long-term engine wear, but also can be used in the N95 respirator masks worn by healthcare professionals to filter harmful airborne particles that can spread COVID-19.

The N95 designation means the respirator can block at least 95 percent of particles from entering the wearer’s nose and mouth. When Cummins’ NanoNet® Media was tested using an industry standard testing method, it exceeded the performance requirements for N95 designation. Cummins’ manufacturing facilities have since provided media samples to mask manufacturers across the globe to test its effectiveness.


There is a lot more detail in the in the article. Reading between the lines, it appears that there are no expectations of adequate supply availability for a prolonged period of time.
SwampWoman said…
MiamiVice, I don't know how the cruise ship thing went down. We read that they were on chartered planes out of Florida. What happened after that, I don't know.
SwampWoman said…
@MiamiVice: I do know that the people from Florida off the cruise ships were driven to their houses and told to stay there for a period of quarantine.

/And immediately thereafter, they probably went to the grocery store.
Leela said…
@Miami Vice Thanks for all your good input. I agree as well that there needs to be some opening of the lockdown so people can work. Watching my friend’s florist shop go under is so painful. He has been in business 18 years.

I once sterted drinking EmergenC instead of plain water (tastes good), and after a few days I got really nauseous. I was probably using 3 packets a day, or 3000 mg per day. Soon as I stopped I was fine. Had one other episode where I got too much and was nauseous again.

Is it just me, or is there a max dose that would help but not too much and cause nausea? I take 1 packet, 1000 mg per day now.I know you said the body lets off excess in urine but I don’t want to be nauseous again (chemo survivor).
Portcitygirl said…
NC here. In case newbies don't know. SO went to Harris Teeter today and stocked up. No dawn or bleach. Sigh. Everything else he was able to purchase. He goes early and said it was a ghost town and employees were all wearing masks. My parents in SC are now wearing doctor masks as my dad was able to confiscate some from the dental office. They are going to sunrise service Sunday and listen to the sermon from cars. Mom said she was pretty sure they would take communion. I advised against it. Narcs do not like to be told what to do, but since my sil has been exposed they are more serious.

Ms. Scarlett

I share your opinion on Bill Gates et al. There is a whole little group of these globalists chomping at the bit to make money off of this virus and there has been talk about having to carry a vaccine certificate when attending large gatherings for the future.

About the cruise lines pouring into FL, they will be super spreaders coming to an airport/ grocery store near you. The govt needs to find a way to track these dumb af idiots. You just know if they are that dumb they are not going to self isolate.
MiamiVice said…
Leela,

I would think even one extra EmergenC packet a day would be helpful. I take a prenatal vitamin daily (have for years) and that has over 100% of the daily recommended Vitamin C. Huge horse pills from Whole Foods, but they have iron in them and everything I can think I might possibly need.

My Vitamin has 100mg Vitamin C, so I would think even one half packet of EmergenC daily would be enough, if a whole packer has 1000mg.
MiamiVice said…
Some cough drops even have vitamin C, and the serving size on the bag of cough drops I have says 2 cough drops give you over 100% of your daily vitamin C.
SwampWoman said…
There are *no* disinfectants here in the stores. I *think* most of them would be available first to hospitals, nursing homes, first responders, food processors, prisons, essential industry, etc. and, when those are fully stocked, back on the shelves for the rest of us. And by *think* it means that I don't know but if I were in charge of the distribution, that is where the supplies would be prioritized.

The thing is, the industrial, institutional, and household supply chains are not the same. I wonder if there is a shortage of chemicals/precursor chemicals, and also where those are manufactured. Considering that the breweries here are making disinfecting alcohol for the hospitals and the first responders, I think lack of chemicals/precursor chemicals could be where the problem lies.
Ian's Girl said…
I don't think any government intentionally inflated anything initially, I think they relied on the likes of Neil Ferguson to supply the modeling. I simply do not understand why a man with a record as abysmal as his in predictions was chosen to determine anything.

Statistics are only truly valuable if everyone is on the exact same page, as opposed to everyone comparing their oranges to your apples and your sister's mangoes.

Decades ago I was involved in medical statistics for an international group, and I was staggered by how differently stats were compiled by country, even within the EU. It leads to wildly inaccurate conclusions being drawn, and is behind a lot of BS about American healthcare vs nationalized healthcare world wide, especially around things like life expectancy and infant mortality rates.

Not saying statistics shouldn't be gathered and used, but in a situation like this with things happening so quickly, there are going to be discrepancies, to say the least.
SwampWoman said…
And, in scarier news, I was outside collecting eggs when I heard SwampMan on the lawn mower headed for the backyard. YIKES! I met him outside the gate and asked what he was about to do since we had a severe thunderstorm and most of the backyard was covered in downed branches and underwater or extremely muddy. He told me he was going to mow. "No, you're not!" I told him. "Well, I can't, you have the damn gate tied shut and I don't have a knife!" he complained. I told him that I had my young apple trees, orange trees, and lemon trees planted back there and he was not allowed inside the gate.

SwampWoman said…
Ian's Girl, I agree.

Do you think the EU is going to survive this?
SwampWoman said…
Sorry, Ian's Girl, I was unclear. I know the countries in the EU will survive, I just wonder if the governmental entity known as the EU will survive, or if the countries will go their separate ways. It doesn't appear to be very helpful.
Miggy said…
A really interesting twitter thread from Dr. Sanjay Gupta about testing for the coronavirus.

https://twitter.com/drsanjaygupta/status/1248695040282693634
MiamiVice said…
One bright spot (for me at least) has been some companies releasing their proprietary recipes for all to enjoy.

The latest: Doubletree’s Chocolate Chip Cookie recipe!

https://newsroom.hilton.com/static-doubletree-reveals-cookie-recipe.htm
Shaggy said…
Ian's Girl said...
"At the end of the day, this is just another case of Mother Nature thinning out the herd. Most people who die of it are old and or weak in some way."
.........
IMO this is a very CREEPY statement totally devoid of any sort of empathy and I find it extremely perplexing.

_________________________

@Miami Vice -
That was me who left the comment to you under "unknown" yesterday which I will now be using on the infrequent occasions I may still feel the need to post here.
Why don't you start your own blog? - although now that you've helped turn this one into a mess of fox news conspiracy theories with a "southern twist" I suppose you may feel well entrenched.
Just saw on the news the government is cracking down on people reporting false information about the virus - perhaps you should make any new blog you consider doing PRIVATE.

BTW, your frequent habit of contradicting yourself is enough to cause whiplash for anyone attempting to wade through your posts.
I'm LOL at your comment about not wanting to give your name and credentials on the internet (not that we're interested anyway), but you have ALREADY written way TOO much about yourself - enough to make it easy for anyone to find you. And that is another reason I'm backing off this blog. Knowing the history of MM's sugars, newer posters revealing way too much about themselves, and now these virus conspiracies and rigid partisan based thinking/comments...I fear what this blog will now attract.

I wonder how in the middle of a global pandemic, a "nurse" who constantly boasts about her "sterling" qualifications got LAID OFF and can't find work elsewhere?? LMFAO!!!!
Gee, you could always go up to New York and work there. They are begging for help!

IMO this catastrophe has drawn a line under how self-absorbed much of our "younger" population has become.
CookieShark said…
@ Miami thanks for the recipe! I go by Cookie Shark for a reason :)

Many moons ago I stayed in a Doubletree for the night. I remember how delicious the cookies were!
Sandie said…
Statistics ... truth or fiction, honesty or manipulation?

My personal view is that, although human beings are capable of embracing complexity and contradiction (which are a true reflection of reality), most shy away from it.

How are stats for COVID-19 presented? Number of people: tested, tested positive, recovered, hospitalised, dead. In fact, most agencies supplying information to the public do not even give out this amount of information.

The pandemic is far more complex than that.

Here is what we need to know to get an accurate idea of how much testing is being done and who is being tested:

* Number of people tested
* Total population
* Estimated number of population present in area at the time of testing
* Estimated number of non-residents present in the area at time of testing
* Age profile of those tested
* Socio-economic profile of those tested
* Health profile of those tested

I can do the same for every aspect of the stats being given to the public ... plus I have a lot of questions:

* How many people test positive but show no symptoms?
* How accurate are the tests and what is being done to increase accuracy?

Algorithms are devised and computers are used (and have been for many years now) to calculate best returns for an investment, but the genius of human kind cannot make use of computers to input a complexity of information and draw from that correlations and so on?

Take the death rate as an example: different countries and regions use different criteria for cause of death, so any death rates we are given are not an accurate picture. We need to embrace complexity and include COVID-19 status even if the cause of death was not COVID-19 (e.g. that car accident that killed that person may have been caused by a major coughing fit that was caused by COVID-19).

The stats we are given are reassuring but across the world it has been shown (in my opinion they have not helped anyone in dealing effectively with the pandemic.

Once again, I will say that what I have noticed is that the virus is highly infectious and kills quickly, so health care and funeral services do get overwhelmed. TB is highly infectious (did you know that most people who get infected recover without ever knowing they were infected and so go around infecting others without knowing they are doing so?) but it does not kill as quickly as COVID-19 or even debilitate a sick person as quickly as COVID-19 does. Plus, there is treatment for TB (for most strains but not all).

Lastly, may I express my personal reaction to the view of eugenicists (the virus is killing off the old and sick: those who are a drain on society and who contribute nothing so that they die is not a problem) is that I am appalled and sincerely hope that this challenge to humanity results in evolution (yes, we can embrace complexity and contradiction) and not a triumph of narcissism and shallow materialism (economies can recover; dead people do not revive).

Shaggy said…
@SwampWoman said: "Before I castigate all governmental entities as power-hungry deep staters, I have to take into account what they know and what I don't. For example, the PPE and medications and components to almost everything comes from China. The economy was going to be royally screwed just from that aspect even if there were no positive cases here. There are no other avenues available to get the massive amounts of medication and supplies that we need until China is back to normal, and then the issue of whether we should trust anything coming out of China rears its ugly head. Personally, I would not.

The *only* thing the government had in its bag of tricks to keep as many of our people alive as possible in the sudden surprise pandemic (and that includes medical people without enough protection) was to shut down as much as possible until alternate medication suppliers and PPE have been established. We're not there yet. We won't be there for a long time, I fear, months, not weeks. And I may be being optimistic.
.....................

I agree with all of this - but WHY have you been posting so many negative comments about businesses being shutdown? I understand feeling for the folks who are losing their livelihoods, but your past posts gave the impression you were deadset against shut-downs for anyone other than those vulnerable. I too have lost my small business income - for now. But I understood the need to shelter-in-place.

Personally, I'm afraid the virus is worse than they are letting on and that it will be a long time until we are able to gradually open up. And when we do it will be to a new type of normal. We have gotten many hints about this in my hot-spot state.
SwampWoman said…
Anon-unknown said IMO this catastrophe has drawn a line under how self-absorbed much of our "younger" population has become.

Demanding that businesses be shut down and people's lives financially ruined and the world thrust into a great depression in order to protect the older retired people seems pretty self-absorbed as well. There must be a happy medium.

There are a lot of *very* angry people out there screaming that their point of view is the only correct one.



SwampWoman said…
Anon-unknown said: I agree with all of this - but WHY have you been posting so many negative comments about businesses being shutdown? I understand feeling for the folks who are losing their livelihoods, but your past posts gave the impression you were deadset against shut-downs for anyone other than those vulnerable. I too have lost my small business income - for now. But I understood the need to shelter-in-place.

I say this because there are more places in the country that are not having problems and only a few places that are. Those few places should be shut down, the rest of the country is only getting more and more angry that they are being punished for the malfeasance of government in a few areas. It is as though government is determined to punish those places that have prepared while coddling those that have not.
MiamiVice said…
Anon-Unknown,

You are correct in your statements about trolls and you would know considering you are one of them. The whole reason I ever felt the need to comment was that you felt the need to castigate other state governments who don’t go along with ‘Your’ views on how they should do things. If you hadn’t felt the need to constantly attack @swampwoman and the entire state of Florida, I would’ve been content to merely lurk and read along.

I don’t give myself enough credit that ‘I have turned this blog,’ into anything. People are smart enough to see this isn’t nearly the hype it has been made to be.
Get over yourself. This is the last time I respond to you.

Shaggy said…
@Sandie said: Lastly, may I express my personal reaction to the view of eugenicists (the virus is killing off the old and sick: those who are a drain on society and who contribute nothing so that they die is not a problem) is that I am appalled and sincerely hope that this challenge to humanity results in evolution (yes, we can embrace complexity and contradiction) and not a triumph of narcissism and shallow materialism (economies can recover; dead people do not revive).

...............

Thank you so much for this Sandie. I wish I had the ability to write as well as you. Your words have brought tears to my eyes. The stress this pandemic is causing is so much for all of us.

I agree the stats are completely lacking. May I add to your list of flaws the fact that different types of tests are being used in different countries and states. A blogger noted here a while back that there are different methods used for obtaining samples to test.
Shaggy said…
@MiamiVice - I'm afraid your reading comprehension skills are lacking. And if anyone is highly opinionated it is you. Your accusations against me are untrue and you have harassed me with your false impressions since your first appearance here.

Your comment: The whole reason I ever felt the need to comment was that you felt the need to castigate other state governments who don’t go along with ‘Your’ views on how they should do things. If you hadn’t felt the need to constantly attack @swampwoman and the entire state of Florida THIS IS A FALSEHOOD and TROLLING. You must be delusional.

I am not the only poster you have been rude to.

"This is the last time I respond to you." THANK GOD!!!!!😱
SwampWoman said…
MiamiVice, I have just read a report from a group that says that Jacksonville, instead of having 600 positive cases, probably has 100,000. Yikes. You would think that our hospitals would be busier in that case.

He said hospital bed capacity hasn't become a major problem yet, but they are creating contingency plans in southern, central and northeast Florida.

Statewide, DeSantis said 44% of hospital beds are available and 40% of ICU beds are available. In Duval County, 45% of hospitals beds are available and 48% of ICU beds are available.

He said a main priority continues to be the protections of older residents in nursing homes and long term care facilities.

"Clearly this is a virus that presents specific danger to the elderly," said DeSantis.
Leela said…
Thanks, @Miami Vice

I will continue with one packet per day. The Super Orange flavor tastes sooooo good!
Leela said…
Note to peeps having trouble with html tags: I am an old hand at this, developer/designer and I just got caught by the “not closed tag” warning as I used backslash instead of forward slash

Be careful which direction your slash is going when closing the tag! I got tripped up on this iPad keyboard.
SwampWoman said…
ROFL, Leela! I get fussed at all the time for wrong slashes! Especially when I'm switching between devices.
Lemon Tea said…
@anon unknown

Lemon Tea here

@anon unknown

Its the first time I have heard of the term you used, Eugenicist ,or something like that. I am just as appalled as you.
SwampWoman said…
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – While hospitals and health facilities have ramped up to respond to the coronavirus pandemic, many are also losing money because of the stay-at-home orders that cause normal appointments, routine and elective procedures to be delayed.

As one of the institutions feeling the financial impact, Mayo Clinic announced Friday it would temporarily furlough some employees and reduce salaries after that through April 28.

“The decision to proactively postpone elective patient care was the right one, but it eliminated most of our revenue at the same time we are making critical investments to develop and expand testing, conduct research to help stop the pandemic, and realign our facilities and care teams to treat COVID-19 patients,” Mayo Clinic said in a statement. “We will work with our teams over the coming weeks to ensure that our staff are supported, that the duration of this disruption is as limited as possible and that we are ready to ramp up quickly and resume full operations when it is safe to do so."


https://www.news4jax.com/health/2020/04/10/mayo-clinic-to-furlough-some-staff-cut-pay/

SwampWoman said…
So, as you see, even the best hospitals are struggling now.
Leela said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shaggy said…
@Lemon Tea-

Thank you! When I first read the original comment I thought I had traveled back in time to 1930's Nazi Germany and was caught in the middle of an eugenics program.

It was Sandie who made the very eloquent comment about hoping humanity would rise up over narcissism and shallow materialism and reminded us that "economies can recover; dead people do not revive".

I'm just literally sick over some of the stuff I have read in comments here as well as all around.
Sandie said…
No positive cases (no infection) in your area but living in severe lockdown (not allowed outdoors in public space to exercise), which has just been extended for another 2 weeks? That is my situation.

We are all connected.

If lockdown were lifted for this region, what would happen? People would get back to work and resume daily life and free movement. Since there are so many roads in and out of the region (plus other non-road routes) and everyone is so connected (e.g. markets and suppliers outside the region, as well as family and friends), the virus would soon infiltrate and spread. A lot of people who are safe right now would become ill and die. The local area does not have the facilities nor the personnel to deal with that. So, we buy time to develop a vaccine, find a treatment, find better ways to test more, quarantine more, protect more ... and we do that with a lockdown.

I do feel sorry for people in countries such as the USA. You do not have a strong social welfare safety net and your normal is obscene wealth (to be an influencer, a movie star .... is to have it all) next to depressing poverty (just turn away from the homeless). Of course there are caring, compassionate, giving people but there is no formal/official support for that. It is actually quite astonishing that in such a wealthy country people are afraid of becoming unemployed and losing everything, that a recession is more scary than your elderly neighbour dying an agonising and lonely death.

South Africa is almost bankrupt yet we do have a strong social welfare system, everyone at every level (private and government) is out there handing out food parcels (a bunch of politicians have just been arrested for handing out food parcels and causing a riot ... they meant well but actually broke the law!) and our richest are each donating BILLIONS to a fund (politicians are now giving a third of their salary to same fund) to support businesses who are going to collapse, plus we do have an unemployment fund ... and so on.

In the UK, people who are unable to work have now signed up to help with harvesting fruit and vegetables or driving delivery trucks (low pay, but people need to eat and that is the work that is available).

I am amazed and inspired by the personal stories people post here ... about how their daily lives have changed and how innovative people are being in adapting (sharing patterns for face masks, recipes for home-made sanitiser, safe routines ... ways to keep in touch and share and help in any way they can).

Talking of face masks ... the dilemma of any government is to tell people to make their own and risk being sued (not checked for quality and so on) but there are not enough approved medical quality masks for everyone. This is what our Minister of Health has said: Mkhize also recommended that South Africans start wearing cloth masks to help limit the spread of Covid-19, rather than using medical masks reserved for healthcare workers. A huge risk for him (South Africans can be as litigious as Americans) but it is common sense. People on this blog are WAY ahead and have perfected the pattern and production!

Sandie said…
@Anon-Unknown: Stay safe!

@SwampWoman: I love your stories and wish they could be shared with more people!
SwampWoman said…
People that recover from Covid-19 may not have enough antibodies for herd immunity: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3078840/coronavirus-low-antibody-levels-raise-questions-about
SwampWoman said…
Of course, re the above article, can any information out of China be trusted?
MiamiVice said…
I hope I have never hinted that it would be okay for our more ‘experienced’ members of society to go unprotected from this virus. I believe that they should be protected. If it takes the young and healthy wearing masks, hand washing properly, and social distancing, it is the least we can do. For anyone more ‘experienced’ at life, know that the young must get back to work to pay social security and Medicare. You are worth protecting and I can’t imagine a world without you.
SwampWoman said…
In the distribution of coronavirus deceased victims of Florida recorded today, it was a bad day for the males. There were 18 female victims, 30 male victims, and 2 gender unrecorded. The age distributions were 50s: 5, all male; 60s: 11, 6 males, 3 females, 2 gender unrecorded, 70s: 14, 9 males, 5 females, 80s: 15, 8 females, 7 males; 90s: 5, 3 males, 2 females.

There are now 17,448 Florida residents that have tested positive and 520 nonresidents of Florida that have tested positive for a total of 17,968. Of these, 2,496 have been hospitalized at some point in their illness and 419 have died. Of the positive cases, 6,300 are in Dade county and 2,679 are in Broward county for 51% of the total in just two counties. Florida has 67 counties. Dade county has almost 3 million residents.

SwampWoman said…
MiamiVice, I also believe that those of us that are grandparents should be responsible for protecting ourselves via masks, gloves, hats, etc. We cannot expect the country to shut down for us forever. Most of Florida really did not need to go essential business only and I would like that lifted ASAP. The road paving is proceeding along at a fast pace, though (grin).

I believe that we shall probably need to wear masks in public/at work for a year or more. That is going to be less than salubrious in July.

They've been doing some clinical trials on drugs as well as working on the PPE problem. If hydroxychloroquine works well as a preventative, put as many healthcare workers on it as can tolerate it.

MiamiVice said…
Swampwoman,

I just wanted to clarify as the comment had been made on here about the virus weeding out the old and sick and I can’t go for that. I think there are solutions to protect as many as we can without crippling effects to all later on.

I’m not sure of the controversy on Chloraquine as I have been on a trip to Haiti before and all of us had to take it for anti malarial purposes. I don’t remember it being that big of a deal. There was a Pharmacist on here and I do wish she would weigh in. I don’t use Chloraquine in my normal work. I know it can be hard on the liver and cause and upset stomach. I also had heard it could cause dysrhythmias.

MelliticisBee was the pharmacist if I recall correctly.
Shaggy said…
This comment has been removed by the author.

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